Sponsored
Cost and Works Accountants will now only be known as Cost Accountants, with Parliament approving amendments to the existing legislation earlier today.
Also, there will be some brand confusion as the Institute of Cost and Works Accountants of India will now be called the Institute of Cost Accounts of India. As a consequence, the Chartered Accounts Institute and the Cost Accounts Institute will share the same acronym – ICAI.
The approved amendments to three separate acts – the Cost Accountants, Chartered Accountants and Company Secretary acts will also enable professionals to form limited liability partnerships and offer multidisciplinary services.
Members of both the profession are requested to give their comment on the move by way of comment below the post so that we can make a memorandum the Government.
Sponsored
Kindly Refer to
Privacy Policy &
Complete Terms of Use and Disclaimer.
For all Financial accountant,
Costing is the base of all financial report.
For all Financial account,
Costing is the base of all financial report.
I am agree with Mr. Anwar and I hope that all the Financial accountant understand this truth.
We CMAs are also not happy with icai, but u CA peoples were opposing our name change to ICMAI and forced us to take the same name for our institute as of you. but we will not use CA as we are having professional dignity.We are cost and management acountants not CA an Auditor (watch DOG). If you will try to stop us in our growth you yourself will be in looser side, as now in the case of name change. Your monopoly will no longer last you have to compete. so dont be affraid of competetion.
Dont think much of us, u just try to employ your 20000 berojgar CAs first.
The Cost Accountants seems to be unique in the context of its evolution from early history. They never accepted themselves as mere accountant, but at the same they were never accepted as equal to any professionally qualified accountants in the world. In accountancy , Costing has no role to play directly.The main issue is related with the identity crisis of cost accounting. Western world gave its different identity over the period of time like ” Industrial Accountants ,Works Accountants , Management Accountants or newly discovered” strategist”.CIMA UK and IMA US have to be credited for all these evolution of cost accounting. But issue is that Costing is still in its evolutionary phase and I am sure it will be the same in its whole life because Business needs costing , and business is now days ruled by ” management “.Not only costing , but the whole finance domain including over all accounting is a part of management . Simply , a mere part of a body can not be bigger than the whole body.By the nature “management” has turned into hundred percent “strategy” due to complexities in changes in the form of business entity from sole proprietor to corporate. Therefore , cost accountants being accepted as strategist by management is always in a day dreams for them .General people never understand much more than CA/CPA or say simply accountant because the domain of accounting is part of finance ,and finance is again part of management.IMA US says ” Management Accounting is partnering with management for decision making and strategy” . This is not a static definition of costing as management accounting. Definition of management accounting always changes as it truly shows its nature as not being natural science.On the global level , management accounting is changing very fast, some where it has merged or sub merged with general accounting loosing its complete uniqueness. At the same time , it has increased its largeness by being over inclusiveness. All these events have happened due to compulsion or pressure of not having separate identity for costing . Cost accounting is always struggling for its identity . In the early history , its unique identity was messed up with accounting. On the other hand,accounting have gone to the climax of its highness as separate discipline ,which is well accepted by general people ,whereas costing lost all its unique identity with accounting.Now a days, costing is directly fighting with the ” management “for its unique identity . But ” management is so unique and widespread that costing has no chance to win the case of being accepted as strategist. ” management is its self a big strategist in the world. “Management “is rulers in the today’s corporate worlds. The rulers can never share its power because the power is only uniqueness of rulers.Why costing has never been accepted as different domain or why it has always been taken as sub- domain or branch of accounting. Why it has not been accepted as strategist or decision maker. The main bottleneck behind all these issues is broadness of accounting profession. As for example , we can see some evolution of accounting termologies. “Accounting” is done by an ” Accountant” , but costing is done not by “costant’ or Costian orcostist . Hence , costing is only done by a cost” accountant” This is the point , where costing got married with ” Accounting ‘ and its surname becomes ” “accounting “. Hence, we always call costing as cost “accounting”.Though costing was said to be of very superior class domain , but due to its marriage with an accountant , its identity was lost . The tag ” Accountant “with costing can never gives any separate identity . After passage of time , costing changed its name so many times so as to differentiate its identity from a mere accountant. But costing has not achieved any benefit yet to set up any unique domain.The Institute of Cost Accountants of India was recently realized by Indian cost Accountants ,which was dreamed to equate the positions of Indian cost accountants with general accountants of India i.e. Indian Chartered Accountants(CA) . Indian CA were statuted as public accountants and having large identity in the world. Though cost accountants did not accept their identity as mere cost accountants instead of management accountant as well. But Indian Govt forced the same on them . Hence they went to follow the policy of ” Die and let CA die and demanded drop word ” chartered ” from Indian CA on the ground of Indian being republic . But CPA USA being in another republic country embraced ” Chartered’ in the form og CGMA hurt Indian cost Accountants and their policy.Eventually , all gone messed up with accountants to whom they are fighting.Decision makers have two options ; one ;let have patch between cost accountants and chartered accountants and second; complete divorce of costing from accounting ,which will result as “strategy ” .The Indian Institute of Strategy (IIS) may be good option to replace the Institute of Cost Accountants of India. This may solve all problems of identity crisis of cost accounting or management accountant.By this name ,costing will get divorce from ” Accounting”. There will not be any tag behind costing . Cost accountants will be called as” Strategist”, which is creamy layer in the management. And an accountant (CA or CPA ) is never comparable with a certified strategist. Moreover , India being largest democracy in the world can set an example of providing solution to century long pending issue of identity crisis of costing.
The Institute of Cost Accountants is very much suitable to current CWA’s. They are just suffering from inferiority comples a said Hon’ MCA minister.
Thier syllabus is just like academic B.Com/M.Com Standards, their examination is just tru and false.
There is no thing like professional standards in Cost Accountants. GOvt has done very wel to change their name as cost Accountants. GOI gives them loly pop of ACMA/FCMA.
Now days CWA are competeting with world second largest accounting Body ,ICAI
by
distributing CWA certification to some working professionals freely
Planing to give CWA certifications IIM/IIT without any exams just to be recogniesd bt them/
what a irony , an organisation needs recognition by individuals like;
IIMIIT/CA gives recognitions to individual members.
The results of CWA are never known to any body.
some says any commerce students just appear in the CWA exam , you will pass it defenalty,
CWA results is almost 100%.
Now days , any one working in accounts and finance with graduation can easily get cwa.
CWA qaulity is so low , companies never prefer to go its csmpus, hence no campus placement reords you will find.
An appeal to any person deserious og getting CWA, simpply enroll in it , you will be CWA.
because exam is juist formalty.
Syllabus is just publicty
competion is drived by quality ,but feeling of inferirity.
Thanks
I am CA but i am not Cost Accountant !!
Yes dhruv…
Members of ICAI (Old) donot have that competency level as members of ICAI (new) and thus cannot equate CMAs at all, though they live in dream otherwise…. CAs just know one rule “practice if not academic filtration makes a man perfect”………… Only difference that till now ICAI due to fear of business loss, has not given proper space to CMAs to show their competency and to outperform CAs.
It is undoubtedly unjustified to equate CA with CWA………………!!!!
Dusaron ke liye khadda kholnewaala khud bhi kabhi us khadde mein gir saktaa hai…! CA Institute deserved this lesson…..They were interrupting the name change of ICWAI to ICMAI & now they are suffering with their Brand Identity problem…! Now the bill has been passed in Loksabha as well as Rajya Sabha. And this can be stopped only if President of India rejects it. And in the 64 years of History of Independence only one bill has been rejected till date. So if this has to be rejected, another History needs to be created for the same !
A plain convergence of all the three professional bodies is a bare necessity of the economy.The practice of prioritisation to a particular profession by affording protectionism methodology should be discontinued.Due to bogus protection Indian public have suffered a lot.Law makers should put stringent punishments in line with crimnal offences for mis-reporting of financials of entities.Now a days,obtaing a signed report on financials have become a good tactics, for defrauding public funds at large!Let the quality of the professionals to survive and anything other than this to perish.As on date for using a slag language,there are stringent laws to deal with.On the contrary to it for defrauding 14000crores ,there is a provision for imprisionment for a period some years,if the matter is establishe!This is the only reason, why a fighiting as above is in place now!Honestly speaking our law makers are fond of copying the laws of US/UK by leaving the stringent punishment stipulated therein in guise of regulation because of catelisation in extistence beween the law makers and breakers.
Chartered accountants and cost accountants have different set of skills and hence should be treated differently. The same acronym for institutes of both professions will create confusion in public eyes so acronym should be different.
It is not printing error or face saving act of ICAI (Financial Accountants) about ACMA or FCMA.
The small headed ICAI didn’t think about.
Head strong worthless british minded bodies should be washed away from India. If ICAI president is OK with works, ICMAI is OK with ICAI (New).
Both the institutions are claiming , that their institute is more competentThe points are..
1.SYLLABUS CONTENTS OF CA AND ICWA COURSES AND FOCUS : Right from the beginning Institute of Chartered Accountants of India (ICAI) is focusing only on Accounts, Taxation and it does not have strong focus on the internal industry or company management practices .On the other side , ICWAI , included Cost Management Accountancy , Operations Management for strong focus on the internal industry or company management practices . The ICWAI has strong focus on the above subjects and also has very strong focus on Accounts and Taxation. ICWAI has focus on Cost and Management Accountancy , the strong structure of Cost and Management Accountancy is obviously based on the strong foundations of accounts and Taxation.. International Institutes specialized in Management Accountancy have MOUs with ICWAI. So, ICWAI is the sole authority for Management Accountancy . And obviously it states ICWAI is equally strong like CA on Accountancy, Taxation and Audit ( even more strong and advanced than ICAI , because Management Accountancy is based on strong foundations of Accountancy, Taxation)—A person can become a good Judge (like Cost Management Accountancy) only if he is good at law (like Accountancy, Taxation and Audit)
.2.THE FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT PART : Initially in the syllabus of ICAI financial management was not a part. Later for a long time CA did not have Financial Management in its syllabus. This indicates members of ICAI and ICAI are not serious about Fin Mgt. Then how they are eligilible for the posts like VP-Finance, Director-Finance, CFO etc and finance posts?. One more point is “Institute of Chartered Accountants of India (ICAI) does not have strong focus on the internal industry or company management practices”
3.THE RATIONALE BEHIND ASSOCIATE MEMBERSHIP : To become Associate member of ICAI, passing of Final exam of CA is sufficient satisfying article ship .The three years period of article is considered as three years of experience and Associate ship is given in ICAI. But , if you consider ICWAI the associate membership will be given if the candidate passes Final course of ICWAI and possesses three years of responsible experience. Definitely becoming Associate of ICWAI is difficult and worthy compared to three years of articles experience. If we compare the required three years of experience for Associate Membership in ICAI and ICWAI
(a) In case of Articles of ICAI specific responsibility is not fixed on person (student) , but in case of ICWAI ( the candidate is mostly employee) the three years of experience is in a job where job responsibility is fixed.
(b) most of the times, in ICWAI the person works and deals in the system of an industry where management practices and finance functional are present.
(c ) The article ship experience is an experience gained as a student , i.e. . Normally understanding or working with half or zero knowledge. In case of ICWAI the three years of experience is with in job responsibility . If it is experience as semi qualified of fully qualified , then it is the experience gained with sound subject understanding. So in case of ICWA , the knowledge gained is more worthy and sound. The depth and scope of learning is more before becoming Associate Member in ICWAI compared to CA.SO, ICAI SHOULD RE-THINK ABOUT ITS ARTICLES AND PROCEDURE OF ASSOCIATE MEMBERSHIP . IT SHOULD EITHER AVOID ARTICLES OR SHOULD FOLLOW THE PRACTICES OF ICWAI FOR ASSOCIATE MEMBERSHIP.
4.IGNORING INDUSTRIAL, MANAGEMENT PRACTICES, AND AUDIT : CAs don’t know really much about management practices of Finance ( because only ICWAIs are management accountants , ICWAIs are fully aware of Accounts and Management) , then how CAs are eligible for audit? Even during Articleship also mostly they work under Auditor , not in industry , that also without having attachment to responsibility. A person without Management practices or Industrial Practices is not eligible for audit of organsations. A person can become a good Judge (like Cost Management Accountant) only if he is good at law (like Accountancy, Taxation and Audit) .
5.THE DYNAMICS OF SYLLABUS CHANGE : ICAI is not active in updating in syllabus and passive in equip its students and members to the changing dynamics. Because of the statutory protections that ICAI has , ICAI is mild and passive in changing syllabus. The same can be understood by observing its syllabus changes right from its inception. Financial Management is introduced lately, the dynamic Management Accountancy has no much role .Even now also ICAI is trying for Special Audit under Sec 14A , 14AA just by showing that Indirect Tax is a part of CA curriculum ( without Cost Audit and Management Audit, why such a delayed realization ? Weren’t they aware of the same from several years? ). If having a subject is sufficient for Special Audit, then ICWAI can claim “we are best fit for the posts like Production Manager, COO, because Production and Operations Management is part of ICWAI curriculum”. Without any basic idea on Production and Operations Management , how ICAI can claim for 14AA.Because of the failure and inability of ICAI in dealing with Finance and Management practices only ICWAI came into existence. Otherwise ICWAI would not have come into picture. Now after several decades , ICAI is claiming “we have expertise of ICWAIs also”. This is like claiming of Type Machine that “I am more suitable than computer in data management”.One thing is to be remembered “Quality means fitness through knowledge not through ignorance” (see 8.Ignornce and Super ignorance : )
6.THE HARD WORK BEHIND PASS : Persons doing both CA,CWA simultaneously are facing difficulty in passing ICWA than CA. Persons who registered for both CA and ICWA simultaneously are completing CA earlier than ICWA. Number of CAs1,50,000 & ICWAs 40,000. CA syllabus less than ICWA , ICWA syllabus is more. Pass percentage of CA is more.
7.COMARISION WITHOUT STATUTORY PROTECTIONS AND SOUNDNESS: The Institute of Cost and Works Accountants of India is the only Institute in India that has in its syllabus and training contents the proper blend of cost, management accounting, finance and non-finance subjects required for professional management accounting functions. Needless to mention that in the Finance and Management Accounting Committee of the International Federation of Accountants – earlier known as FMAC and now known as Professional Accountant in Business Committee – ICWAI was represented since its inception and not ICAI. ICWAI syllabus covers in-depth company accounts. It is time them to conduct company audits also like CA. How is the idea to open Income Tax Audit to CWA and also remove CAs from VAT Audit as it is indirect tax feild?ICWAI academic filtration is for more superior and tough than simple CA,world wide management accountant has better acceptance than ordinary/simple CA. International bodies recognized ICWA and as qualification equal to their international standard course and allowed ICWAIs to practice in their countries.And those international bodies gave mutual recognition between their course and ICWA.But, CA is not given such recognition by international institutions , and ICAI is struggling to get such recognition.
8.IGNORNCE AND SUPER IGNORANCE : Without knowing the above facts , ignorantly some people feel CA is difficult and they have good knowledge than ICWA. They are ignorant people. There is another category , this is SUPER Ignorant people . These people take opinion of these ignorant people and say CA is difficult . The third category people , they argue CA is ultimate in Finance and Accounts and all statutory powers should be given to CAs . These people show the sample of ignorant and super ignorant peoples’ opinion to prove their argument.
9.IS THE RESISTANCE FROM ICAI FOR NAME CHANGE PART OF SELF DEFENSE? : Cost accountants are also called Management Accountants all over the world in UK , US, Canada and even in Pakistan and Bangladesh also. Why that recognition is not given by Indian Govt? Even for name change also govt is not ready. Is this to standardize the argument in point 8?Why ICWAIs should not be defined under Section 288(2) of the Income Tax Act?We are experiencing the frauds of audit by CAs ( recently Satyam).
Why CA has more recognition than ICWA in spite of
• Easiness (PASS % OF CA IS 400% MORE THAN icwai)
• Less syllabus
• Less focus on management and financial management practices compared to ICWA
• With less dynamism in syllabus change/ up gradation compared to ICWA
• Easier way of becoming associate member compared to ICWA
I CHALLENGE , CAN ANYBODY SAY NO TO THESE? CAN THEY PROVE THESE ARE WRONG?
ICAI IS MAKING UNNECCESSARY NOISE. BRONZE MAKES MORE NOISE THAN GOLD
ICAI has disappointed not only members of ICWAI but also members of ICAI. Few Chartered Accountants are of the opinion that ICAI should not have supported ICWAI to be renamed as ICAI ( Institute of Cost Accountants of India).
By doing so ICWAI have got the brand name of ICAI that was built by Chartered Accountants Institute over a period of 60 years.
Further, as per the act that was passed in Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha AICWA and FICWA can use the designation ACMA and FCMA.
Benefits to ICWAI
• Works Accountant name is removed from ICWAI
• Got the brand name of ICAI
• Got the designation of “ACMA” and “FCMA” –
• Parliament indirectly recognizing ICWAs as “ Cost & Management Accountants”
Loss to ICWAI
Institute could not be renamed as ICMAI
Benefits to ICAI
They could successfully stop the name change of ICWAI
Loss to ICAI
Their brand name ICAI will be used by ICWAI.
TO THE MINISTRY OF CORPORATE AFFAIRS & THE PARLIAMENT:–
DEAR SIR,
PLEASE NOTICE THE FUNNY THING OF THE ICWAI AMENDMENT BILL,2011 PASSED BY RAJYASABHA & LOKSABHA……THEY HAVE AGREED TO SUBSTITUTE THE SUFFIX ACMA & FCMA IN PLACE OF AICWA & FICWA(EARLIER) RESPECTIVELY. WHAT IS THE MEANING OF ACMA & FCMA …….IT IS SURELY ASSOCIATE COST & MANAGEMENT ACCOUNTANT & FELLOW COST & MANAGEMENT ACCOUNTANT. IF IT IS SO, THEN WHY THE PARLIAMENT IS NOT CHANGING THE FULL NAME OF THE INSTITUTE. SIR, WE HAVE BEEN RECOGNIZING VERY FAST AND GLOWINGLY ALL OVER THE WORLD (RECENT MoU WITH OVERSEAS COST & MANAGEMENT ACCOUNTING BODIES SHOWS THE RESULT). THE NAME CHANGE OF ICWAI TO ICMAI IS ABSOLUTELY A GENUINE DEMAND AND CA’S SELFISH LOBBY SHOULD NOT BE GIVEN MUCH ATTENTION IN THE INTEREST OF 56000 MEMBERS & 450000 STUDENTS IN THE COUNTRY. WE ALL COUNTRY MEN ARE SOCKED AS HOW THE PARLIAMENT PASSES THE BILL WITHOUT THE HEARING & CONSENT OF THE INSTITUTE. IT IS VERY SHAMEFULNESS THAT CA’S ARE UTILIZING THEIR FINANCIAL STRENTH EVEN IN PARLIAMENT THAT’S WHY SUCH A BILL IS BEING PASSED IN A HURRY AND WITHOUT THE CONSENT OF THE INSTITUTE. IF THE LAW MAKER (THE PARLIMENT) IS ACTING LIKE THIS,,,,,,,,,WHAT SHOULD BE OUR FATE AND FUTURE.
SIR, LOOK; THE MAIN PURPOSE OF ICWAI ACT’1959 WAS TO DEVELOP COST & MANAGEMENT ACCOUNTING PROFESSIONALS IN THE COUNTRY INCLUDING FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT(FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT WAS NOT IN CA SYLLABUS INITIALLY, IT WAS ONLY IN ICWAI SYLLABUS), INTERNAL AUDIT PRACTICES & MANAGEMENT CONTROL FUNCTIONS (COST AUDIT & COST ACCOUNTS ARE MERELY PARTS OF MANAGEMENT ACCOUNTING & CONTROL). MOREOVER, ARE WE MERELY STUDYING COST ACCOUNTS IN OUR SYLLABUS THE ANSWER IS ABSOLUTELY “NO’ ICWAI UPDATES ITS CURRICULUM REGULARLY AND MODERN ICWAI SYLLABUS IS AT PART WITH ICMAI, UK, AUSTRALIA, CANADA, SRI LANKA ETC. (THAT’S WHY WE ARE GETTING GLOBAL RECOGNITION VERY FAST, MODERN ICWAI SYLLABUS IS ALSO VERY VAST AS COMPARED TO CA SYLLABUS ), THEN WHY SUCH A PARTIALITY SIR. ALL OVER THE WORLD COST & MANAGEMENT ACCOUNTANTS NAME IS VERY FAMILIAR WHY THEN IT SHOULD NOT IMPLEMENTED IN OUR CASE.
SIR, I, ON BEHALFT OF MY ICWAI, SINCERELY REQUEST YOU TO IMMEDIATELY CHANGE THE NAME OF ICWAI TO ICMAI IN THE INTEREST OF OUR NATION.
I HOPE ALL THE ABOVE COMMENTS ARE IN FAVOUR OF ICWAI & MCA SHOULD IMMEDIATELY TAKE A “RELOOK” & CHANGE THE NAME OF ICWAI TO ICMAI.
WITH BEST WISHES
REGARDS,
CMA BIRENDRA SINGH
icwai name should be changed as” ICMA” only, as it globally called as Management Accountants . ICWAI is being ignored by TOP Level of Authories and given ill treatment. At present there is no value to the Cost accountants, If Govt change the name as ICMA which enable to increase the Profession of Management Accountancy . This will help the Management Accountants to play a major Role in Economic/ Corporate scenario.
I am very much agree with the arguments that if CA’s are eligible for audit U/S 14 and U/S 14AA of Central Excise Act 1944so why not CWA’a are eligible for audit held under Income Tax Act 1961. I totally disagree with the definition of accountant under Su-section 2 of Section 288 of Income Tax Act which contain accountant only means Chartered Accountant . Govt.Should modify the Section 288 of Income Tax Act 1961 or Direct Tax Code (New Drafted).
Yes, the ICAI (CAs) should not interfere in other professional bodies rather it should concentrate on its own because the quality of CA & CA Students has degraded a lot and due to their monopoly in certification they are misleading from their core responsibilities resulting into scams, frauds. If these activites go on continuing then ICAI has to suffer a lot with another body governing it.
ICAI agreed to ACMA/FCMA for Cost Accountants just to save their ACA/FCA. There is no error at all in Cost & Works Accountants Amendment Bill 2011 passed by Lok sabha on December 19, 2011. Now again Government is trying to manipulate by saying that there is printing error. The Bill has been passed in Rajya Sabha on December 12, 2011 and the same is passed in Lok sabha on December, 2011. Let government give either ACA/FCA to the Cost Accountants but not AICA/FICA as “I” is not there at any point of time in ACS/FCS and ACA/FCA. It was AICWA/FICWA and “I” represents the term”Incorporated” as in 1940s they were known as Incorporated Cost & Works Accountants and thus AICWA stands for Associate Incorporated Cost & Works Accountants/Fellow Incorporated Cost & Works Accountants for the descriptive letters “FICWA”. Let us go back to the history of ICWAI and learn the lesson. Associate Members of the Institute of Chartered Accountants of India are not known by AICA/FICA then some people are instigationg AICA/FICA for the Institute of Cost Accountants of India?
This is for Ketki.First who has given such all responsibilitese to CAs ? Is the CA only Profeesion in India to do the work related with all financial/taxation issues.Can others not perform well?Taxation/Audit is not the fatherhood of Chartered Accountants.If it is then it is better to close other institutes forever.So that after passing the course from other institutes the students/Professionals like you dont feel cheated.
very nice and logical reply by CMA. ANWAR. All CA’s replies shows their frustration and fear for future..
no .. this amendment should never be done….. we CA’s can’t share even our acronym ICAI with any one else.
I agree with the replies given by CMA.Anwar. His replies are based on facts and truth. No CA member is argued with facts. Their replies shows only their BIG-Brothely attitude. Why Cost Accountants should not be treated on par with CS’s? Why the CA’s affraid over the change of name of ICWAI ?It is very unfair and undemocratic. I don’t understand, why our Govt. is seeking consent from ICAI for change of name of ICWAI ? We the members of ICWAI feel unhappy on the passing of ICWAI Amendment bill in The Rajya Sabha. We request that our just demand for name change of our Institute is to be accepted. We demand justice.We hopethat our Govt. will understand the feelings of our members.
ICMAI is an apt name for ICWAI as known in other countries. I do not understand what harm it will do to others if ICWAI is renamed as ICMAI. I feel that changing name of ICWAI to ICAI is not right it will lead to lot of confusion, renaming it to ICMAI is correct.
Very Well Replied by CMA. Anwar. Most Logical.
In my View Changing the name to “Institute of Cost and Management Accountant of India” would have been much better. And a request to all the professionals to respect all the professions. Very sad to see ICAI Vs ICWAI. All the three professions viz., CA, CS & CWA have its own importance, own stature. All the three Institutes need to join hand to bring greater transparency, credibility in Indian Corporates. Fighting with each other will be resistance to the Growth of Our economy. More than name what matters is the powers vested under the various acts.
For years the CA institute stopped ICWA name change to ICMA when it had nothing to do with them. They should concentrate on their institute getting more acceptability on the international forum of chartered institutes. As such they are still not on the same page as the institutes from UK, Scotland, Australia, NZ etc. Concentrating on tax and audit alone is not enough. Their students dont know much beyond this. Look within and improve yourself.
@ Raj Kumar Gupta, whose said all the statutory powers should be taken back and and given to CA……….
Mr. Gupta, not only all power must be given to ICAI, We must draft a ACT in which ICAI have solo power to choose Prime Minister, Prisedent, Cheif Justice of India, Cheif election Commisioner (Will be not requried, as ICAI has power to elect) Cheif Minister of all States and Governer etc.
not only this Presedent of ICAI must given power poss any ACT even without any discussion at Parliament.
Is it enough Mr. Gupta? or ICAI need more power such as power to elect US Presedent, UNO Chief etc?
When ICWA institute insisting with government for changing name from ICWAI to ICMA which are already recognized by worldwide then ICAI member lobbied against ICWAI request but now government change the name only Institute of Cost Accountant then they are fearing his identification. Further I would like to request with government, please don’t reduce the value of ICWAI as same acronym and change ICMA as worldwide recognized.
ICAI is opposed to anything and everything. They are opposed to
1)Setting up of Independent regulatory body for regulating Audit Profession 2) Setting up of seperate Valuation body which will include Professionals like CWA,CS & Engineers & CA 3) Tax Auditing Standards proposed to be issued by Central Board of Direct Tax (CBDT) 4) NACAS 5) Name change of ICWAI to ICMAI 6) Students & Members of ICAI to pursue CFA course (Finally supreme court intervened and reprimanded ICAI) etc etc etc . Clearly ICAI is too much afraid of competition and wants to be an Umbrella organisation which will provide all services (Accounts, Audit,Costing,Management Accounting,Analyst etc etc etc…) under one roof and will also self-regulate all these services. All this shows the amount of influence, nexus, lobby & political musscle power that ICAI possess to manipulate anything & everything that it opposes. If MCA or GOI cannot stand up to the manipulation of ICAI then there is only one suggesstion left that to close down all the Premier institutes in the country and let there be only one institute in India i.e ICAI. True, in this country many are ignorant and most of the people are super-ignorant. BLACK DAY in the history of Indian Accountancy for passing this Bill in most undemocratic way in the so-called World’s Largest Democracy.
@ Ketki
Me too agree that CA are much professional than CMA. CMA must have to involved in scams such as Sttayam, Global Tust Bank and many undisclose scams to show their professinalism.
Due to their PROFESSIONALISM, MCA introduced NACAS.
CA only want monopoly and afraid of compitions.
Good Reply by Mr. Anwar. Keep it up
Press Release
ICWAI DEMANDS DROP “CHARTERED” FROM ICAI
New Delhi: 15
th Dec 2011
The President and members of the Council of the Institute of Cost and Works Accountants of India express their utmost unhappiness on the passing of the ICWAI Amendment Bill in the Rajya Sabha on 12
th Dec 2011, by which the name was
proposed to be changed to the Institute of Cost Accountants of India. Our Institute strongly objects to the move by the sister professional body in interfering the activities of the another professional body to encourage foreign management accounting bodies to
establish their presence in India to the detriment of Indian professionals. The Hon’ble Minister in his reply to the debate in Rajya Sabha also questioned
“After independence, why a colonial name like Chartered should be there. You know,
this is a matter which is left to the Chartered Accountants of India to consider.”
We also demand that in the post independence era let the Government also change the name of the Institute of Chartered Accountants of India into some other name or remove the name “Chartered”. While for this the Government feels that it is the matter which has to be taken up by the Chartered Institute, in our case we find that without our
consent our name is proposed to be changed at the behest of The Institute of Chartered Accountants of India. The dominant position enjoyed by the Chartered Accountants are taken advantage by that Institute in creating block for a sister professional body which is catering to the youth to get a professional accounting qualification while working in
whatever employment they are already in, to further their growth prospects.
The Institute of Chartered Accountants of India have been continuously interfering with the name change of our Institute, objecting to the name by which the similar cost accounting bodies across the globe are called. Unfortunately, due to their dominant position which was recognized even in the Report of the Standing Committee of Parliament, our genuine request is not heeded by the Government. In the Rajya abha’s debate during the Bill many Honourable Members commented that the entry of foreign consulting firms through surrogate Indian audit firms should not be encouraged.
They also commented that
“That is why it is quite possible that money is illegally taken by some entities to foreign countries with the advice and superb consultancy with the Chartered Accountants ……. That is why along with the quantity of Chartered Accountants ……… the professional ethics in this country,
unfortunately, are declining very fast and sometimes feel that it is going to the point beyond no repairs.”
In another statement in the same debate Honourable members commented “Now in the recent 2G scam, you will be surprised to know
that in all the cases of all these companies, whatever certificates were given by the auditors that their authorized capital is this much and paid up capital is this much, were false. They got the license on the basis of false certificates issued by the auditors
. It is a very serious issue Sir”.
The growth of membership as well as students in the past five years of ICWAI has been phenomenal with the growth rate of 30% every year. The students are growing at the rate of more than 50% in recent years. This shows that the youth of the country have recognized that a major opportunity lies in acquiring a professional qualification. In all the cases which was mentioned in the Rajya Sabha debate the Chartered Accountancy profession was targeted but ultimately the punishment was handed over to the Cost Accounting profession which has no role in these scams. Through this exercise, the Institute of Chartered Accountants of India have enabled foreign management accounting bodies to establish their presence in India. Indirectly this is creating a position of dominance for the Chartered Accounting Institute, which goes against the principles the Government is trying to establish vide the Competition policy.
The 50,000 members and 4,00,000 students all over the country are pained due to this unfortunate development. The Central Council Members, Office Bearers of the Regional Councils & Chapters of the Institute have started to send their resignation to the President as a mark of protest against this unfair activity of the Institute of Chartered Accountants of India in preventing the just demand of our profession.
-0-0-0-0-
Dear CA Rashu Agarwal
Both the institutions are claiming , that their institute is more competent
The points are..
1.SYLLABUS CONTENTS OF CA AND ICWA COURSES AND FOCUS : Right from the beginning Institute of Chartered Accountants of India (ICAI) is focusing only on Accounts, Taxation and it does not have strong focus on the internal industry or company management practices .On the other side , ICWAI , included Cost Management Accountancy , Operations Management for strong focus on the internal industry or company management practices . The ICWAI has strong focus on the above subjects and also has very strong focus on Accounts and Taxation. ICWAI has focus on Cost and Management Accountancy , the strong structure of Cost and Management Accountancy is obviously based on the strong foundations of accounts and Taxation.. International Institutes specialized in Management Accountancy have MOUs with ICWAI. So, ICWAI is the sole authority for Management Accountancy . And obviously it states ICWAI is equally strong like CA on Accountancy, Taxation and Audit ( even more strong and advanced than ICAI , because Management Accountancy is based on strong foundations of Accountancy, Taxation)—A person can become a good Judge (like Cost Management Accountancy) only if he is good at law (like Accountancy, Taxation and Audit) .
2.THE FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT PART : Initially in the syllabus of ICAI financial management was not a part. Later for a long time CA did not have Financial Management in its syllabus. This indicates members of ICAI and ICAI are not serious about Fin Mgt. Then how they are eligilible for the posts like VP-Finance, Director-Finance, CFO etc and finance posts?. One more point is “Institute of Chartered Accountants of India (ICAI) does not have strong focus on the internal industry or company management practices”
3.THE RATIONALE BEHIND ASSOCIATE MEMBERSHIP : To become Associate member of ICAI, passing of Final exam of CA is sufficient satisfying article ship .The three years period of article is considered as three years of experience and Associate ship is given in ICAI. But , if you consider ICWAI the associate membership will be given if the candidate passes Final course of ICWAI and possesses three years of responsible experience. Definitely becoming Associate of ICWAI is difficult and worthy compared to three years of articles experience. If we compare the required three years of experience for Associate Membership in ICAI and ICWAI (a) In case of Articles of ICAI specific responsibility is not fixed on person (student) , but in case of ICWAI ( the candidate is mostly employee) the three years of experience is in a job where job responsibility is fixed. (b) most of the times, in ICWAI the person works and deals in the system of an industry where management practices and finance functional are present. (c ) The article ship experience is an experience gained as a student , i.e. . Normally understanding or working with half or zero knowledge. In case of ICWAI the three years of experience is with in job responsibility . If it is experience as semi qualified of fully qualified , then it is the experience gained with sound subject understanding. So in case of ICWA , the knowledge gained is more worthy and sound. The depth and scope of learning is more before becoming Associate Member in ICWAI compared to CA.
SO, ICAI SHOULD RE-THINK ABOUT ITS ARTICLES AND PROCEDURE OF ASSOCIATE MEMBERSHIP . IT SHOULD EITHER AVOID ARTICLES OR SHOULD FOLLOW THE PRACTICES OF ICWAI FOR ASSOCIATE MEMBERSHIP.
4.IGNORING INDUSTRIAL, MANAGEMENT PRACTICES, AND AUDIT : CAs don’t know really much about management practices of Finance ( because only ICWAIs are management accountants , ICWAIs are fully aware of Accounts and Management) , then how CAs are eligible for audit? Even during Articleship also mostly they work under Auditor , not in industry , that also without having attachment to responsibility. A person without Management practices or Industrial Practices is not eligible for audit of organsations. A person can become a good Judge (like Cost Management Accountant) only if he is good at law (like Accountancy, Taxation and Audit) .
5.THE DYNAMICS OF SYLLABUS CHANGE : ICAI is not active in updating in syllabus and passive in equip its students and members to the changing dynamics. Because of the statutory protections that ICAI has , ICAI is mild and passive in changing syllabus. The same can be understood by observing its syllabus changes right from its inception. Financial Management is introduced lately, the dynamic Management Accountancy has no much role .Even now also ICAI is trying for Special Audit under Sec 14A , 14AA just by showing that Indirect Tax is a part of CA curriculum ( without Cost Audit and Management Audit, why such a delayed realization ? Weren’t they aware of the same from several years? ). If having a subject is sufficient for Special Audit, then ICWAI can claim “we are best fit for the posts like Production Manager, COO, because Production and Operations Management is part of ICWAI curriculum”. Without any basic idea on Production and Operations Management , how ICAI can claim for 14AA.
Because of the failure and inability of ICAI in dealing with Finance and Management practices only ICWAI came into existence. Otherwise ICWAI would not have come into picture. Now after several decades , ICAI is claiming “we have expertise of ICWAIs also”. This is like claiming of Type Machine that “I am more suitable than computer in data management”.
One thing is to be remembered “Quality means fitness through knowledge not through ignorance” (see 8.Ignornce and Super ignorance : )
6.THE HARD WORK BEHIND PASS : Persons doing both CA,CWA simultaneously are facing difficulty in passing ICWA than CA. Persons who registered for both CA and ICWA simultaneously are completing CA earlier than ICWA. Number of CAs1,50,000 & ICWAs 40,000. CA syllabus less than ICWA , ICWA syllabus is more. Pass percentage of CA is more.
7.COMARISION WITHOUT STATUTORY PROTECTIONS AND SOUNDNESS: The Institute of Cost and Works Accountants of India is the only Institute in India that has in its syllabus and training contents the proper blend of cost, management accounting, finance and non-finance subjects required for professional management accounting functions. Needless to mention that in the Finance and Management Accounting Committee of the International Federation of Accountants – earlier known as FMAC and now known as Professional Accountant in Business Committee – ICWAI was represented since its inception and not ICAI. ICWAI syllabus covers in-depth company accounts. It is time them to conduct company audits also like CA. How is the idea to open Income Tax Audit to CWA and also remove CAs from VAT Audit as it is indirect tax feild?ICWAI academic filtration is for more superior and tough than simple CA,world wide management accountant has better acceptance than ordinary/simple CA. International bodies recognized ICWA and as qualification equal to their international standard course and allowed ICWAIs to practice in their countries.
And those international bodies gave mutual recognition between their course and ICWA.
But, CA is not given such recognition by international institutions , and ICAI is struggling to get such recognition.
8.IGNORNCE AND SUPER IGNORANCE : Without knowing the above facts , ignorantly some people feel CA is difficult and they have good knowledge than ICWA. They are ignorant people. There is another category , this is SUPER Ignorant people . These people take opinion of these ignorant people and say CA is difficult . The third category people , they argue CA is ultimate in Finance and Accounts and all statutory powers should be given to CAs . These people show the sample of ignorant and super ignorant peoples’ opinion to prove their argument.
9.IS THE RESISTANCE FROM ICAI FOR NAME CHANGE PART OF SELF DEFENSE? : Cost accountants are also called Management Accountants all over the world in UK , US, Canada and even in Pakistan and Bangladesh also. Why that recognition is not given by Indian Govt? Even for name change also govt is not ready. Is this to standardize the argument in point 8?
Why ICWAIs should not be defined under Section 288(2) of the Income Tax Act?
We are experiencing the frauds of audit by CAs ( recently Satyam).
Why CA has more recognition than ICWA in spite of
• Easiness
• Less syllabus
• Less focus on management and financial management practices compared to ICWA
• With less dynamism in syllabus change/ up gradation compared to ICWA
• Easier way of becoming associate member compared to ICWA
Regards
@ CA Rashu Agarwal
ICWAI academic filtration is much higher than ICAI . Its syllabus , passing rate and training is unparalleled
Why we did not demand simultaneous deletion of “chartered” word officially and strongly enough- when deletion of “works” from our name (and non allowing management in its place) was being proposed. This one simple masterstroke would have stalled all ca lobby’s oppositions to our name change bill . Even now we should make such a demand before the bills are finally passed and brought into statute books.If CAs become mere Registered Accountants , there shall be a level playing field for both Accountants and Cost Accountants. Both ‘Chartered’ and ‘Management’ can be viewed as generic terms.’Accountant’ is also a generic term. If ‘Management’ at par with international practices is not to be allowed,why allow the colonial term’Chartered’ -at par usage by some commonwealth countries -even after independence.
Dear All,
‘MCA’s stand as per 25th report of the Standing Committee on Finance of Fifteenth Loksabha
―.….There are several countries such as Canada, USA, UK, Bangladesh, Pakistan and Sri Lanka where the dual model of accounting institutes exists. In none of these countries confusion has been created by the existence of two titles and both CMAs and CAs co-exist in harmony rendering service to the society. The objections of ICAI to name change do not seem to carry conviction.”
In Para 20
“―There does not seem to be infringement between the interests of the members of ICAI and ICWAI. The syllabus of all the three Institutes have law papers but they do not practice in courts. Many of the papers in the three Institutes are common but Company Secretaries and Cost Accountants cannot practice the profession of financial auditing unless they become member of ICAI. Financial Accountants world over are known as ―Chartered Accountants‖ or ―Certified Public Accountants‖. The title ―Chartered Accountant‖ is on the lines of nomenclature in UK just before independence or passage of bill in 1949. Similarly, professionals of ICWAI could also use the nomenclature prevalent internationally.”
In Para 24
“―In the Acts of the three Professional Institutes Chartered Accountants, Cost Accountants and Company Secretaries have been defined as the members of the respective Institutes. In the Acts of the three Professional Institutes Chartered Accountancy, Cost Accountancy and Company Secretaryship have not been defined. Perhaps there is no need to define the management accounting and the role of management accountants.”
Compare this with Moily’s stand on the debate.
How can ” management be allowed to ICWAI. Management is broader than Account. ICAWI cant claim it alone.
Management bodies in other countries have been set up mostly as private or society. Hence name for Indian CWA , be Society of Indian Management Accountant”.
Management Acountant are more mba than Accountant , all the statutory powers should be taken back and and given to CA.
We take exapmples of US And UK.
After reading all the comments above it seems that everyone just knows about the change of name from ICWAI to ICAI but the twist is CWA,s won,t use the prefix ACA/FCA instead ACMA/FCMA(PFA the copy of amendment passed by rajya sabha).However it is really illogical if the institute is known as INSTIUTE OF COST ACCOUNTANTS OF INDIA but its members have to add the prefix ACMA/FCMA instead of ACA/FCA.
However the whole gamut has been the result of the opposition from the other institute.Earlier.it was sure that the name should be ICMAI instead of ICWAI but there had been lot of oppsition for the same .As a result of which the new name leaves everyone suffering with lot of confusions.
I’m against the decision …….
as we know both CA and CWA are specialized in different areas …and people are fully aware of their accountability & responsibility and there is lot of difference in Brand.
but after decision both will share “CA” … hence lot of confusion among people and may be one take the advantage of other. we must take action against the amendment to remove the confusion by suggesting different name to cost accountants……………
This is an unwise move of ministry. Renaming ICWAI will not serve any purpose and this will create confusion as person from both the profession will be using same prefix. When ICWAI will represent itself as ICAI then it will be disgusting because it will give a bad name to CA institute who has build it’s reputation with it’s dedicated efforts.
Everyone knows that the level of professionalism and expertise of CAs is far better than CWAs and due to this move of ministry ICWAI will be a gainer at the cost of ICAI.
I hope that the parliamentarians will understand their mistake and this bill will not have a passage through the parliament.
this is not good I just want to know that whether both the professionals may used CA and CA it means both professional are laydown by their deginaty as just think that suppose someone using His name S. Kumar, CA, CA what it means it should be I think some different because as now days if a cost & works accountant using CA designation no body will ask him are u a CA means Chartered Accountant its laydown him he has to clear about that no I am not Chartered Accountant I am a cost accountant. I am just requesting to ICAI and ICWAI think about this again.
It is rubbish…Institute of chartered accountants already exists..and so also ICAI….
Now one fine morning cost accountants get up and use ICAI and CA before their name is rubbish.
there will be lot of confusion in cost accountants and chartered accountants.
And CA has many different roles , responsibilties and authorities…it may be misused by cost accountants in the name of CA
and this will create unnecessary confusion..
Same acronym – ICAI is not correct as there will be confusion among general public and within industry . ICAI is a brand name given to Chartered Accounts Institute and it should be with them only. Cost Accounts Institute should be given a different name.
THE FACILITY OF FORMING LLP BY DIFFERENT PROFESSIONALS IS GOOD.
HOWEVER, SHARING OF SAME ACRONYM (ICAI) BY TWO INSTITUTES NEEDS A RELOOK.
ONE MORE SLAP BY GOVT AND MCA TO ICAI
FIRST SLAP WAS FORMATION OF NACAS BY MCA
SECOND SLAP TO ICAI IS ICWAI TO BE RENAMED ICAI
THIRD SLAP TO ICAI IS COMING – REGULATORY BODY UNDER MCA TO CONTROL AND MONITOR AUDITORS
FANTASTIC ACTION MCA PLEASE KEEP IT UP AND CUT POWERS OGF ICAI WHO THINKS IT IS THE SUPREME BODY AND CANNOT TAKE ACTION AGAINST THE REAL CULPRITS JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE INFLUENTIAL CONNECTED WITH CABINET MINISTERS AND CENTRAL COUNCIL MEMBERS -CONGRATULATIONS TO ALL THE CA MEMBERS WHO ARE DISGUSTED WITH POOR FUNCTIONING OF ICAI.RAMASWAMY IS A SINCERE DEDICATED PERSON TRYING HIS BEST EFFORTS TO CLEAN THE IMAGE.GOD BLESS HIM FOR HIS EFFORTS BUT THERE IS LOT OF MUCK WHICH NEEDS VACUUM CLEANING IN ICAI.
The move is welcome….but probably the GOI could have gone with the demand of the ICWAI to change the name to Institute of Cost and Management Accountants of India….the move understandably scuttled by vested interests in other professions….In any case the change is welcome since this will alleviate lot of doubts about Cost Accountant working in the overseas …the LLP route is likely to throw lot of competition amonf professionals ….let the quality of service not affect as well as the tendency to undercut fees for services not be rampant
The tussle between the ICAI and ICWAI that I have had watched since the 80’s as to the naming of ICWAI as ICMAI and ICAI’s staunch opposition to the substitution of W with M for Management, has not made ICAI, the big brother more gracious. While counter-parts in other countries like UK etc have already adopted the M, India still reels under the hammer of big-brotherly attitude of ICAI.
At the end with this government notification, none become the winner. erstwhile acronym ICAI standing for Institute of Chartered Accountants of India would have to change it read as IChAI while ICWAI would have love to carry to array ICAI as a tit-for-tat. Since there is no legislation as yet on what nomenclature any prof body may use, now on ICWAI members would mention ACA,FCA.
If it happens, there are a lot of pit falls as well for the public as it may lead to public confusion.
So, now the need is to legislate what nomenclature be used by members of each institute.
“Cost accountants should not be treated at par with chartered Accountants.”
My suggession is Member of Chartered Accounts Institute and the Cost Accounts Institute will share the same acronym – ICAI. is not accptable one, because ICAI is brand and familier name of Chartered Accountant, not for ICWAI, so this will be change.
Further ICWAI will claim CA What will be the value of Chartered Accountant?
THERE SHOULD BE DIFFERENT ACRONYMS FOR DIFFERENT PROFESSIONALS AND INSTITUTES TO AVOID MISREPRESENTATION BY THE MEMBERS AND CONFUSION IN THE SOCIETY. CHARTERED ACCOUNTANTS AND COST ACCOUNTANTS SPECIALISE IN DIFFERENT STREAMS AND SHOULD NOT USE THE SAME ACCRONYM AS THE COMMON MAN IS NOT AWARE OF THE CHANGES AND WILL NOT ENQUIRE FROM THE MEMBERS USING THE SAME AND WILL GET MISREPRESENTED.