INTERVIEW WITH GST EXPERT CA BIMAL JAIN BY CA SUDHIR HALKHANDI
Today I have with me one of the biggest Experts of GST CA Bimal Jain, The GST Guru. CA Bimal Jain is a qualified Chartered accountant 1994. He is FCA, FCS, and LLB. He is the chairman of Indirect Tax committee of PHD chamber of Commerce and author of the Book GST and Analysis (With conceptual Procedures). He is also associated with some of the biggest Trade and Industries organizations and Associations.
Once I said “CA Bimal Jain=GST” in India and many of you will agree with it not only considering the Knowledge of CA Bimal jain about GST but the way in which he is spreading the Knowledge of GST in professional fraternity through GST seminars and through his YouTube channel.
CA Bimal jain has the distinction of addressing as keynote speaker in ICSI seminar of GST which has made a new Guinness Book of world record, breaking earlier record of Japan, with respect “Largest Taxation Lesson” attended by more than 4500 participants. Really a proud moment for the Professional fraternity.
Let us have a talk with GST Guru CA Bimal Jain.
KNOW YOUR GST EXPERT – CA BIMAL JAIN WITH SUDHIR HALAKHANDI
Sudhir Halakhandi: Welcome Mr. Bimal Jain. You have done a great work as far as GST is concerned and you are the considered as biggest GST Expert in the country. Congrats to you sir on behalf of whole the group.
CA Bimal Jain: My Pleasure…as I said you all are my strength and motivation.
Sudhir Halakhandi: Sir, Please tell us something about your Education, School, College and then Articleship.
CA Bimal Jain: I completed my higher education from Shri Jain Vidyalay in Kolkata, after which I graduated with a Bachelor of Commerce (Honors) from Saint Xaviers College, Kolkata, then, I passed my CA in May, 1994 did my Articleship from H S Jain & Co., Kolkata. Late Shri H S Jain was one of Legend in the CA Fraternity and registered with ICAI in 1950.
Sudhir Halakhandi: CA Bimal Jain, Most of the professionals match your status in Indirect Tax with Dr.Girish Ahuja who is a icon in Direct Taxes. How do you feel about it and what is your reaction?
CA Bimal Jain: Really feel so satisfied that comparison made with Icon Guru of all Guru….Let me tell you…Dr. Ahuja is legend and Guru of all of us…I m not comparable to him but always gives the satisfaction of compared with my Guru as well. If you allow, then, i want tell you my one night story spent with Guru ji at Udaipur.
Sudhir Halakhandi: Yes Sir. Please…
CA Bimal Jain: When I started making presentation and spending one night with him…I asked him…Sir, what should I do to excel my presentation skill….He has given me MANTRA of making extempore presentation…which I am following in my lots of presentation…and it is being liked by my fellow professionals.
Sudhir Halakhandi: Very Nice sir. So now you are the inspiration for all the professionals Like Dr. Girish Ahuja. You are also being called GST GURU.
CA Bimal Jain: Thanks Sir…and all the friends…Truly blessed.
Sudhir Halakhandi: You are attached with some of the biggest Companies and Trade Associations. How your professional journey was started and then how your association was started with these big organizations.
CA Bimal Jain: My professional journey started after completion of my Chartered Accountancy way back in 1994 and I started working for Hindustan Gas & Industries Ltd (A V Birla Group) as Executive Assistant to the President for Finance and Accounts role. Later on, I changed my job in 1996 and joined Hindustan Development Corporation Ltd ( R P Modi Group) where I worked for around 4 years after that, I moved out of Kolkata to Delhi and started working for a Dubai Based Company i.e. Link Middle East Ltd as Country Head for a timeline of 4 years, later on, moved to Honda Motor Cycle Ltd, where I worked as Tax Head for around 1 year and thereafter, I switched to LG Electronics Ltd in 2005 and worked there till 2009 as All India Head –Taxation
It was then, the real turnaround of my career started i.e. my own ambition and vision of being an Entrepreneur in my passion of Indirect Tax. Since, then, I take breathe with Indirect Tax and GST. Fortunately, I started GST as front runner and succeeded with God’s grace and best wishes from all my friends, who are my strength and motivation to do better and better.
Sudhir Halakhandi: Bimal sir you are also associated with some of Trade and Industry Associations and chambers of commerce also like FICCI, ASSOCHAM, and PHD Chamber of Commerce etc. How this association was started.
CA Bimal Jain: I came from Industry background so I was knowing the pain parts of Trade and Industry, which I used to represent for my predecessor Companies…Known to North Block and Trade Chambers…That is the reason, all these chambers assigned me the responsibility of Chairman of IDT Committee of PHD Chamber, Assocham, FICCI, CII, etc. Being Chairman of, I always tried to represent issues for the Trade & Industry. It also helps me to be in touch with senior Govt. officials for resolution of real problems.
Sudhir Halakhandi: Sir, You are doing tremendous work in this sector.
CA Bimal Jain: Thanks Sir….Yes tried my best.
Sudhir Halakhandi: You are the one of the GST Experts who attended largest number of GST seminars as key speaker. How do you manage this with your professional responsibilities and busy schedule?
CA Bimal Jain: Very Good Question, as normally being asked by lots of professionals Nothing is impossible when we work for our own passion and love. GST is my passion and it goes so natural with my overall responsibility of doing business and spreading my knowledge to all, who are real hero of my life because their love and faith made me so special in their eyes.
As a Key Note Speakers of GST Seminar organised by ICSI at Jaipur, we have also made Guinness world Record in 2017…Which India made defeating earlier record of Japan wherein more 4500 participants attended the largest event. Feel Proud for the same.
Sudhir Halakhandi: Great achievement Sir!! Yes I know this was a very very big event sir and I have already a plan to take it in my next question but you have already mentioned it here. Now my question regarding this event is:-
What was your feeling at that time since you played a major part in this international record of ICSI.
CA Bimal Jain: Feeling Proud!!! I was Feeling was on top of the World…a Guinness world Record…Indeed a very satisfying moment… And Thanks Sir….you are so kind at all times for recognition to me.
Sudhir Halakhandi: It should be a proud moment for all the professionals and professional bodies of our country.
CA Bimal Jain: Surely…we did it…India did it…same way when we make any record in any game, event, etc.
Sudhir Halakhandi: Sir, you are an inspiration for all members. There are many speakers but the way you make it easy and smooth is commendable. I want to know if there were some negative moments when you feel like things are not moving, how you handle those slow moments?
CA Bimal Jain: Shall I tell you truth….It is quite natural sometimes these situations come in everyone’s life. One day, my presentation did not reach to satisfaction level .I came back and was sad on that day… my wife asked me what happened….. I told her the reason. Listen what she said…which makes me so stronger. Like Sachin Tendulkar does not make Century in every inning….U must give your best try, which I am sure…you must have given… So these situations come to prepare you for betterment…does not take it negative on you…build on them and prove. My message to all professionals….some negative moments are for the time being for WINNER.
Sudhir Halakhandi: Thanks CA Shaifali Girdharwal for such a nice and inspiring question.
CA Bimal Jain: Ohk…This is being asked by Shaifali….she is truly GST orator and expert my best compliments to her.
Sudhir Halakhandi: Yes, Bimal Sir, I received this question just 30 seconds before posting it from Ca Shaifali Girdharwal. She is our next guest on 16th.
CA Bimal Jain: Great…. Hope Shaifali is satisfied with the answer …She also knows me very well.
Sudhir Halakhandi: Now Sir, The real GST. Question. A big one. Sir, the way GST is introduced in our country, are you satisfied with it and its journey till now?
CA Bimal Jain: GST had been introduced with huge fanfare in our country back in where it was dreamt that this new taxation regime will solve the problems which have been plaguing the old ones since distant times. GST was intended to become the equalizer through which Indian taxation systems can finally catch up with other countries around the world. Transitioning from an old to a new regime is always tough but change is the ultimate constant in our lives. Change is supposed to bring disruption to the existing system and brings temporary hardship along with it but is meant to be beneficial in the longer run.
Journey of GST till now has been difficult to say, for plenty of reasons. There have been numerous amendments and still things haven’t settled down as they should have. We are still in the path of reforming GST to its best version possible. Currently, the jurisprudence has not evolved completely and the meaning as well as certainty of various provisions has not been discussed at length. Return Filing along with some other processes has not been implemented as envisaged and originally thought of. Hence things are currently working for constant betterment.
Therefore, I cannot say that I am completely satisfied but nonetheless I feel that the run of GST in our country has been decent given the fact that our country has various demographics and strata of taxpayers and to look after the needs of all of them is a tedious job for any government. My Opinion -I am completely not satisfied but nonetheless I feel that the run of GST in our country has been decent given the fact that our country has various demographics and strata of taxpayers and to look after the needs of all of them is a tedious job for any government.
Sudhir Halakhandi: Now one more on basics on GST. CA Bimal Jain the GST procedures since beginning were very complex and dealers and professionals were disappointed with these strict procedures. What is your opinion about it?
CA Bimal Jain: My viewpoint on the same is that definitely, the procedures since the advent of GST have been complex and disappointing in the sense that many of the taxpayers in our country are not as acclimatized to technology and computing as they should have been. This made it tough for simple laymen to adopt to these new online software-based return filing and compliance processes. Also, the introduction of GST in our country was made in a hurried manner and the taxpayers and professionals were not given much preparation time for making the shift from the old systems to the new proposed system. But, we all are learning with the passage of time and surely, we all will see real success of GST as Good and Simple tax.
Sudhir Halakhandi: Ok CA Bimal Jain One hour is over and we are still middle of our program. Are you comfortable?
CA Bimal Jain: Not an issue for me sir…all members are OK with it.
Sudhir Halakhandi: No problem sir.
CA Bimal Jain: Then Proceed Sir
Sudhir Halakhandi: Now Something about GSTN. The Network is a real problem?
CA Bimal Jain: Yes…GSTN is problem but what they can do if rules are changes so frequently. Any software needs its own time for making program. Irony is both way. Rules changes so frequently and Hardware to handle system is not equipped that’s why in recent 39th GST Council meeting, it is decided that there would be increase hardware and related stuff capacity from 1.50 Lakhs to 3.00 Lakhs at a time. Let’s hope for the best.
Sudhir Halakhandi: But sir whatever may be the problem, it is between Lawmakers and Service provider. Why dealers and professionals should suffer?
CA Bimal Jain: You are right…the Govt. should have proactively done that…I agree with you but my response was on GSTN.
Sudhir Halakhandi: For dealers both Govt. and GSTN are same as far as the technical problems are concerned.
CA Bimal Jain: Yes Sir…
Sudhir Halakhandi: There is lot of resentment on Late Fees. Do you think Government should refund it?
CA Bimal Jain: Yes Sir. Definitely yes…Govt. should not have waived late fees to those who defaulted in filing their returns whereas other honest taxpayers filed their return with payment of late fees. If, defaulters are benefited with waiver of late fees, then, those who have paid must be refunded to show case honest tax payers are rewarded for their timely tax compliance.
Sudhir Halakhandi: Discrimination is certainly there sir.
CA Bimal Jain: Yes Sir… That’s why refund should be allowed.
Sudhir Halakhandi: Sir, What is your opinion about Non financial effect RCM. There is an opinion that it is only burdening the dealers. Should it be withdrawn?
CA Bimal Jain: I heard from different platform that RCM should be withdrawn but my answer. It’s revenue neutral transaction for the Govt. except when it is used for non-taxable or exempted supplies. So, it’s difficult for Govt. to withdraw completely unless the Govt. settle down with their target tax collections.
Sudhir Halakhandi: Sir, I have written so many times about withdrawal non financial effect RCM.
CA Bimal Jain: Yes Sir…seen that…and discussed with officials…got the answer, which i also vouch to certain extent…till the time GST law gets settled with target collections…it will take sometime…
Sudhir Halakhandi: but RCM other than attached with Exempt or non taxable supply have nothing to do with revenue?
CA Bimal Jain: Yes Sir….but lots of operation issues…
Sudhir Halakhandi: Ok now take a break from serious questions CA Bimal Jain. How is Komal sir? Is she still working in your office or she is your imaginary character? Please tell interesting story about her to our members.
CA Bimal Jain: Komal…. ohk Sir.. Let me tell you about Komal…. Komal is doing great now. Now she is an expert in GST. On a lighter note, Komal is just an analogy to represent the employees working in everyone’s offices. She is an imaginary character as I have said in many of my seminars on GST. I have taken example of Komal to explain how we have learned GST during initial days of GST.
Such Komal was there in everyone’s office. It was quoted on a lighter note. Now, they are GST Expert. My Compliments to all GST Practitioners. Imaginary named as Komal.
Sudhir Halakhandi: Now again we are on serious Mode. What is your opinion on Rajasthan AAR Ruling on Director’s Remuneration? I know you are disagreeing with it. But please explain for the benefit of our Members and readers.
CA Bimal Jain: No GST should be levied on Director’s remuneration when there is Employer- Employee relationship between the Company and Director…Wherein Director’s remuneration is chargeable under the head ‘Salary’ and TDS is deducted u/s 192 of the IT Act. Further, this is supported by Entry no. 1 of the Schedule III of the CGST Act, which says – “Services by an employee to the employer in the course of or in relation to his employment” IS NEITHER A SUPPLY OF GOODS NOR SUPPLY OF SERVICES. If, Director’s remuneration is chargeable u/s 194J of IT Act as Professional fees, then, GST to be levied and that too under RCM vide Entry 6 of the NN.13/2017 (CT-Rates) dated 28-06-2017, which reads as – “Services supplied by a director of a company or a body corporate to the said company or the body corporate”.
Further, if any other services provided by Director but not in the capacity of Director, would be chargeable to GST and that too under FC method. (Registration to be taken as per threshold amount u/s 22 of the CGST Act).
Sudhir Halakhandi: Now sir we are taking some queries related to GST. Sir, it is related to E-way bill. One person has booked consignments to different persons in a single transport vehicle. The sale value of each consignment is ranging between Rs.40000.00 to 45000.00. What is the position of E-way bill?
CA Bimal Jain: NO E-way bill required as per Rule 138(7) of the CGST Rules, which is kept in abeyance vide Notification No.15/2018 – Central Tax dated March 23rd, 2018 as on date, which states “Where the consignor or the consignee has not generated the e-way bill in FORM GST EWB-01 and the aggregate of the consignment value of goods carried in the conveyance is more than fifty thousand rupees, the transporter, except in case of transportation of goods by railways, air and vessel, shall, in respect of inter-State supply, generate the e-way bill in FORM GST EWB-01 on the basis of invoice or bill of supply or delivery challan, as the case may be, and may also generate a consolidated e-way bill in FORM GST EWB-02 on the common portal prior to the movement of goods:
Provided that where the goods to be transported are supplied through an e-commerce operator or a courier agency, the information in Part A of Form GST EWB-01 may be furnished by such e-commerce operator or courier agency.
Sudhir Halakhandi: Next query is related to ITC on transport vehicles. X and Company is a Manufacturing Company at Ajmer. It has purchased 5 trucks and all the trucks are being used for Transportation of own manufactured goods from Ajmer to Ahmadabad. Now it is not possible to bring them back empty so at time of Return Journey from Ahmadabad to Ajmer the trucks bring goods of other dealers booked there by other transport companies. Here the question is whether the dealer can claim ITC on these trucks and on their tyres spares repair, Insurance etc. and the second question is if ITC is available then what will be the GST rate on return journey in this situation.
CA Bimal Jain: This Transaction has multiple legs for answer but in brief my answer is – Dealer can avail ITC only when they satisfy conditions of sec 16(2) of the CGST Act as having tax invoice, receipt of goods or services, supplier has paid taxes, recipient has filed return and GST rates to be applied as per Rate Notification for specified goods or services…Residue item –18 %.
Sudhir Halakhandi: One question from Hotel Industries.
Whether Commission paid by an Hotelier to an agent outside India for booking of foreign tourist in a hotel in India is liable to GST under RCM?
CA Bimal Jain: This is creeping issue since 1-10-2014 (Service tax era), being intermediary u/s 13(8) of the IGST Act, No GST under RCM leviable…reason LOS and POS both are Location of Supplier outside India. But, in reverse case, it is not export of services and GST leviable on same principle i.e. LOS and POS both are Location of Supplier in India.
Sudhir Halakhandi: What will be the financial effect if RCM is paid?
CA Bimal Jain: Why to pay RCM when not leviable…
Sudhir Halakhandi: There are 2 biggest problems at present being faced by GST Dealers. These two are result of Section 16(4) and 36 (4). These two are legal problems but can you suggest lawmakers something more liberal to do away such strict procedures or do you agree with them to make the disciplined tax system.
CA Bimal Jain: Pandora’s Box Sir… Rules are born before provisions are born i.e. effective…. Irony of the GST not becoming “Good and Simple Tax”. Rule 36(4) is contrary to the provisions of the Act…ultra vires the CGST Act….the Govt. should have waited for implementation of these Rules with New Return system and ITC u/s 43A of the CGST Act. Yes, I agree Sir…disciplined tax system required for Lawmakers. Kindly watch my recent video on said issue and different topics on my YouTube channel. As you doing great Job Sir…we are also trying from our side to make GST – Good and Simple Tax.
Sudhir Halakhandi: Nice Sir. Most of the members regularly watching. Every video is great as far as GST learning process is concern. Nice Sir. We all know sir. You are very quick in spreading authentic knowledge on GST…… A great work sir for the benefit of professional fraternity.
CA Bimal Jain: Thanks Sir. All the members and readers are requested to please write back to me for any suggestions, feedback.
Sudhir Halakhandi- Members are regularly watching your GST videos sir. I request all the members please send your comments after watching the videos on Official YouTube channel of CA Bimal Jain. One can describe this channel as “GST Knowledge Bank. My request Please view, like and subscribe the official you Tube channel of CA BIMAL JAIN.
CA Bimal Jain: Thanks Sir.
Sudhir Halakhandi: Now Bimal sir 2 hours are almost complete hence I am taking My Last question and it is related to Registration of a works contractor while working outside the state. Whether a Registered Person in Rajasthan who has been awarded works contract in Maharashtra, is required to take registration in Maharashtra in following scenario-
a) Work would continue for 1 Month
b) Work would continue for 6 Months.
CA Bimal Jain: Need Not be…he needs to look at which office is going to be designated as LOS…Credit Availment, Billing to be made, Privity of Contract, etc.
Sudhir Halakhandi: Nice talking with you CA Bimal Jain the “GST GURU”. Thanks.
CA Bimal Jain: Compliment to you Sir for such a lovely interactions. Indeed a great initiative. Thanking all my friends for their love and affection to me. Thanks Once again Sir for such a lovely interactions today.
Sudhir Halakhandi: Thank You Sir.